| Notater |
- {geni:about_me} See discussion at http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=wensell&id=I941
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The mystery child of Hans Svaning - Marine Svane
Af Anthony Svane
Up til December 2002 did I have a series of e-mail exchange with Professor Edward Neugaard from the University of Florida and through him a number of Genealogist worldwide. The problem were whether Hans Svanings second daughter by the name of Marine was the daughter af Hans Svaning or a daughter of Marine (Hansdatter) Svane & Anders Sørensen Vedel.
My thought and theory then and now has not changed. I am still convinced that Marine Svane is the daughter of Marine Hansdatter Svane (b. 1562) and Anders Sørensen Vedel - It can not be otherwise. And it will change the ancestry table of Norwegian Munthe family.
However there is some changes to the previous revision of the "NeugaarNorris Ancestral file 11. Generation X revised 12.12.2002" as shown here. These changes constitutes clarification, later discovery and a few corrections
Hans Svaning and Marine Sørensdatter Stage got a daughter on February 20th 1562 which was baptised XMarine Hansdatter SvaneX (Bishop Peder Hegelund called her Svanesdatter). She was engaged at an age of 14? year and the 30th of June 1577 she was married to the famous writer Anders Sørensen Vedel.
She died during a visit to her parentXs home in Ribe the 28th of July 1578. By most accounts, she XMarine Hansdatter SvaneX died when giving birth presumable to a little girl.
Hans Svaning and Marine Sørensdatter Stage got a daughter - presumably in the late of 1577 or the first part of 1578. Her name were Kirstine Svane and she got marriage in 1595 to a priest Bertel Madsen. They were marriage for 8 years - but it is not known if they got any children. She got marriage soon after his death and her later Husband Niels Villadsen became the grand parents to large part of the Svanes settlement in the northern part of Denmark (Viborg).
All though there is a lot of argument which can be used to justified the claims, that Marine Svane was not the daughter of Hans Svaning, there are 3 arguments there stands out namely:
X Marine Stage gave birth to a daughter in 1577 and could not by all account do it again 7-9 month later.
X It was in Denmark unthinkable for a mother to give the same name of newly diseased adult daughter to a newborn daughter of her.
X But it was quit common that a newborn daughter was given the name of the mother or one of the mothers of grandparents.
Marine Svane was born before the 27th of July 1578 i the City of Ribe - presumably some time before the mother died.
My assumption is, that the family (Hans Svaning & Marine Stage) took the child to them as their own and named her after the mother XMarine SvaneX (Bishop Peder Hegelund called the mother Marine Svanesdatter and her daughter for Marine Svane). In those days, it was important that the a first born was a boy.
Anders Sørensen Vedel got stuck with a girl, which had no value what so ever and presumable were quit happy with that arrangement. He was -according to the inscription in Ribe Domkirke - devastated over losing his dear wife and to feed a baby there would remind him of his wife was most properly not an option.
Andes Vedel was a man insecure of him self and in his abilities, but with powerful friends like Royal Chandler Niels Kaas and Arild Huitfeldt, he obtained, in 1578, a promise that he would replace his father in, law when he dies.
He himself was also elevated to royal History Graf in 1580, as his father in law. He went to Ribe in 1581 and married Bishop Hans Laugesens daughter XMetteX with whom he got 9 children one of them being his daughter Anna Andersdatter Vedel.
But back to Marine Svane in the house of the Svanings.
How Marine childhood was will we never know, but it must have been a bit difficult for her to live in the house of the Svanings, having your biological father living in the same town and within the same family sphere.
For Anders Vedels wife Mette was sister to townsman Jens Laugesen, who was marriage to Dorothea Hansdatter Svane - Marines aunt.
And know doubt, Marine seems to have a mind of her oven. At 23, she was still not marriage, but some times in 1601 she became apparently pregnant for she delivered a daughter sometimes in the middle of 1602 - Maren. And how do we know that?
Well - the father to the child must have been an important person for the the incident created quit a furor in the family and it wasted no time in getting her engaged the 6. of Jan. 1602 to an unknown clerk - the 2 year younger Søren Kristensen Friis - working for the new Vassal at the Riberhus Castle Albert Skeel at Riberhus Castle.
But that did not stop the young lady, for the 12 of marts 1602 - 2 month after her engagement - her "brother" Jacob Svaning took her "sister" away from somewhere i the city of Ribe. Peder Hegelund made a note - in latin - in hisAlmanak d. 12 marts 1602 XM.Iacobus Svaningius abduxit secum Sororem Marine desponsam Severino FriissX.
Marine Svane daughter Maren was given the name Maren Sørensdatter Friis and with Søren she got a daughter Ingeborg Sørensdatter Friis in 1606 and another daughter in 1610 Anne Sørensdatter Friis.
Her Aunts Dorothy's husband Jens Laugesen (her fathers wifes brother) died in 1609 and approx 3 years later - Dorothea died. Marine & Søren took Jens & Dorothy's 3 children into custody.
However Søren Kristensen Friis died the 24th of April 1613 at an age of 43 years, and now Marine had 6 children to look after plus her uncle (Jens Svanes) teen ages children. A widow usually had to hurry and find a new husband totake over the obligations, as she traditional had no say as a women. With family help she manage to find a new husband and she was married to Oluf Jensen. He was "Foged" (manager) on a castle called XTurebygaardX on the island Sealand (Sjælland) - Denmark.
So in 1614 she arrived with more or less 7 children to the castle.
Officially Marine were the Daughter of Hans Svaning and Marine Sørensdatter Stage, at least that is what is assumed, however there is a distinct possibility that she is the daughter of Anders Sorensen Vedel born in 1578. She got marriage to Søren Kristensen Friis the 5th of Feb. 1604 and they got 3 children:
X Maren Friis was born in 1602 X she was married 4 times with Isak Jørgensen, Jacob Stoud, Peder Ananiassen Beyer and Niels Bugge in a Norwegian town if Sejle.
X Ingeborg Sørensdatter Friis (the second daughter) was born late 1605 or early 1606 in Ribe. She got marriage to Ludvig Hanssøn Munthe.
X Anne Sørensdatter Friis was born in 1610. She got marriage to Mathias Hansen Lemmichen
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Ca 1578 - Ca 1640 (62 år)
d. 13 Feb 1616, Ribe, Syddanmark, Danmark